What Makes a Rip?
May 15th, 08 | 12 remarksBlatant theft is obvious, but is there such thing as a partial rip? Have you ever come across something suspiciously similar to your work? If so, how do you know for sure it’s really theft? I recently discovered another premium WordPress theme site that I think is walking a fine line. Since I’m not very happy with or impressed by the individual behind it I’m not going to link up, but I do feel compelled to post about it.
At first glance, there was nothing remarkable about the design in question other than it being noticeably uncoordinated. Then I scrolled down and saw a striking resemblance to my first free theme release, called Into the Ocean.
Footer from Into the Ocean.
Footer from unnamed site.
Coincidental Similarities or Multi-Rip?
If you’ve ever spent even a small amount of time surfing for themes, you might have come to recognize the work of certain designers. I can think of a few themes in particular which gained a great deal of popularity and were quite original. The following elements of the design in question also reminded me (a bit too much) of some other themes besides mine…
Search entry from unnamed site.
Search entry from Bartelme’s Fresh theme.
Background graphic from unnamed site.
Background graphic from WP Designer’s Envy theme.
An Uber Mash-up?
This site seems to have been pieced together by several sources of supposed inspiration, but is that enough to pass as original? There is a thing called Fair Use, and yes the themes which may have been borrowed from were all released in the spirit of sharing. But if the author did in fact put his site together this way, where’s the attribution?
I raise an eyebrow at the fact that this person is promoting a product line consisting of “high quality” themes, yet appears to be using others as a catalyst to build his own. I wonder how many of his products were built in the same manner. There’s nothing wrong with creating mash-ups. Designers do it all the time because we want to experiment and learn - but that doesn’t necessarily mean we can sell them. Depending on the license attached to any given theme, derivative works must be released under the same terms as the original work.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making accusations. And maybe it’s not fair to single out only small portions of the design to pick on - but I can’t help feeling a little suspicious.
I think this is a really difficult thing to judge. How is one to know whether the designer just happened upon the same look for something as you or another designer did? Where is the line between being inspired by something and copying it? Hard to know.
May 15, 08 | 10:13 pmReally hard thing to judge. One can’t help be a little suspicious about these sorts of things, but sometimes it can be inspiration (sometimes not even knowing where it came from, but seeing it and then being reminded of the idea later). Sometimes very similar things are invented independently of each other. An example being my current footer and the one at Split Da Diz. I made mine (which looked more similar before I changed the tag cloud to a grid) before I’d even seen that site.
I generally like to give the benefit of the doubt, but too often it is a rip. Despite giving the benefit of the doubt, I have no problem flat-out asking about the similarity.
May 16, 08 | 1:32 amThere are similarities between the site design elements that you’ve mentioned, but I don’t think you can assume that they are direct rip-offs.
May 16, 08 | 1:06 pmGood points, both. I would prefer to give the benefit of the doubt as well, especially when it’s quite possible the idea came from a different source or as you said Kristarella, without the author even knowing his work ended up being so similar to mine (or others). I hesitated to even use the word “rip” for that reason, because I know I’d feel horrible if someone pointed to me saying I had ripped them without even knowing it!
One could argue there’s nothing truly original anymore, that trends are cyclical and everything has been done… it just took me by surprise and it wasn’t a good feeling. :(
Out of curiosity how would either of you approach someone you were suspicious of - without actually accusing them? I think it would have to be handled cautiously and I’m lousy at confrontations. ;)
May 16, 08 | 1:20 pmI suck at confrontations too. I always like to think I’m even headed, but firm… I’m so not. I pretty much let someone push in front of me in the supermarket line yesterday because I gave her the benefit of the doubt – I may not ahve looked like I was in the line because I was trying to make the line surve around instead of going back towards the aisles and blocking shoppers.
I think I would research the basis of the other design a bit and then send the author/designer an inquisitive (trying not to be accusatory) email.
Actually just wrote this post, There’s nothing new under the sun. The designs were done at similar times (within 6 months or something) and completely independently, but looking at the similarity still makes me a little sad (or slightly flattered that I came up with something similar to what three proffesional designers came up with).
May 19, 08 | 1:09 amThis is really difficult for me. I think it is okay to use just a little bit, but it is really hard to find the line when making a new design. I think it is a good rule to try your best not to rip off someone elses work, but I think it just depends..especially with website design.
Jun 1, 08 | 11:01 pmRight, it’s really difficult to accuse or to say something against someone. I agree with Steve, it’s hard to come up with your own design but it’s not good to copy the work of others. It would be best to come up with your very own design. Maybe you could look for other design as your basis only.
Jun 3, 08 | 7:55 pmHi there,
I came to know about your site from nathan rice’s site. By chance, go to know about this post as well. Now talking about blatant rip offs, if the people don’t know the site above, that site is called premiumthemes.net which, I have designed myself.
I haven’t read the post and comments above, but I will explain the things myself, not asking for any judgments.
First of all, if you take a look at all the themes in that site, you will agree somewhat that I DO HAVE design abilities. Though I do not consider myself a great/good designer, I can do good myself. Let’s go to the design rip-offs…
Footer- It has been ‘inspired’, ‘partially ripped’ or ‘theft’ from that great Apple footer. Ornaments has been ’stealed’ from great cameron moll’s portfolio site.
Other Screenshots above: I don’t know what to comment, but I would say a poor try taking a look at thousands of great designs showcased at css galleries.
Please forgive me if I am harsh a bit, but frankly speaking, It hurts a bit when someone accuse you.
Jun 6, 08 | 12:38 amI am sorry, I just had a look at the free theme you mentioned above and I genuinely agree that it almost resembles the same. Infact, looks like a copy. I don’t know what to say but I will try changing it in near future when I realign the site.
I would still say, I never ever saw that theme before but I am sorry - for the similarities, for the poor English.
Jun 6, 08 | 12:44 amHi R.Bhavesh, no need to apologize for your English I understood you perfectly well. I’d also like to thank you for your candor in responding to this entry. It was not my intention to accuse you, though I understand how some parts might be perceived that way. And since you did not read the post I can see why you would assume that’s what I was doing.
At the time of this writing, I was very frustrated about the possibility that I might’ve been ripped. The similarities jumped out at me so strongly when I saw your site that I probably overreacted. In retrospect, I should have contacted you about it and I apologize for not doing so.
One more thing I’d like to mention - I saw your WP Remix theme when it first launched and really liked it, so I did not mean to imply you have NO design skills. I’m not in the habit of critiquing others’ work on this blog because I’m sure plenty of people could find things wrong with my designs (and in fact some have). However I stand behind what I said about premiumthemes.net having an uncoordinated feel. It’s just my opinion - take it as a grain of salt I guess.
Jun 6, 08 | 11:37 amNo worries. Once again, it was purely a co-incidence. I was wondering that only if i take out the blue gradient, it would change the things completely. Anyways, because you are in theme selling business now, another challenge you will find is, the magazine kind of theme’s structure.
It doesn’t matter if you had a look at other themes or not, if you build a theme with the structure that resembles with other themes, you will face the same condition. What I personally believe is, there is no solution to this. The only way to stop blames is, to sit and do nothing. Obviously, I would not take this way. Be honest, keep working, create good value.
Thanks
Jun 10, 08 | 3:57 amI agree there is no solution for this in terms of layouts looking the same after a while. There’s only so many ways certain elements can be arranged on a page. Then again, can a layout even be copyrighted? I honestly don’t know. It’s not an actual design, and if one is not copying the code behind it but rather just using the same wireframe concept for an entirely different design, would that constitute a rip?
To me, a framework is an incomplete idea (that a unique design is later wrapped around), and since ideas cannot be copyrighted…. this raises some good questions!
Jun 10, 08 | 9:35 am